Campaign to remove VAT from insulation materials!

[Paul Buckingham]

Remove VAT from insulation materials.

Click on this link to vote on this.

http://38degrees.uservoice.com/forums/78585-campaign-suggestions/suggestions/1383949-zero-vat-on-energy-saving-products?ref=title

The government have set carbon emission and energy reduction targets of 80% from current levels by 2050 which, in reality, is going to be very hard to meet. 2050 is still 39 years away which seems like far into the future but we need to start achieving this now in order to be on target to reach these levels.
One of the most important ways of working towards this is to install high levels of insulation to all existing properties, cavity wall and loft insulation are very minimal insulation measures that alone will never be able to achieve the insulation targets required.
There is a very small incentive of 5% VAT on insulation materials which sounds good but is very misleading! The 5% VAT can only be obtained on insulating materials if the installer is VAT registered (the materials will still have to purchased at 20% VAT) and then only as part of the whole installation including materials and labour which is charged to the client at 5%!
This is the only way with current Customs and Excise policy that the 5% VAT can be achieved!
A homeowner who wants to save energy and money by installing insulation themselves, which is what many people will want to do, will have to buy the materials at 20% VAT which is a great disincentive! The additional 20% VAT will also have the effect of forcing compromise where less insulation is installed due to costs!
For example external wall insulation will cost around £5,000 - £10,000 on materials alone for an average house, adding 20% VAT on top of this pushes the price much higher, £12,000 for the top end!
The addition of VAT will result in a compromise of thinner materials being installed which will achieve considerably less in energy saving! Using the extra money spent on VAT (£2,000 from the example above) for thicker insulation materials would achieve greatly increased energy saving! Keeping VAT on these materials will result in significantly less energy savings than could potentially be achieved without?
Energy saving and meeting 2050 targets is going to cost a lot of money to achieve and putting VAT on the materials and labour will push these costs higher, as a result, meeting these targets will be made significantly harder and more costly!
VAT is a significant stumbling block in achieving 2050 targets, removing VAT from all insulation materials will really help homeowners to work towards these targets, insulation is not a luxury item, with rising energy prices and the threat of climate change, it is an essential item!
Sustainable Lifestyles, October 2011.

I'm trying to get something moving to try and get VAT scrapped from insulation materials, if everyone writes to their MP's about this then maybe we can get this done!

[Paul Buckingham]

We have managed to push this to 58 votes from 9 in about 3 days and from a rating of around 300th to 199th, there seems to be a lot of interest in this campaign but we need support from everyone in the AECB to really get this moving, please get voting!

[Paul Buckingham]

New Facebook group set up to drive this campaign, please join us and make this a reality!

http://www.facebook.com/groups/183688161711541/

[Paul Buckingham]

E-petition now set up and running, please give this your support and lets make energy efficiency more affordable!

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/19087

[heinbloed]

Who's money is going to be used to control the damage which insulants can cause?!

See

http://ec.europa.eu/environment/gpp/pdf/thermal_insulation_GPP_%20background_report.pdf

The polluter must pay. That's EU principle. Since the heavy users of energy ( for example the insulant industry) is exempted from energy taxes - who comes up for the damages these products cause? For the controls, the state bodiess bussy with regulations, the overstretched health care system treating asbestose, silicosis, skin cancer and  damages caused by styrol (a hazardous substance) ?

 The smokers? The cyclists?

A bit more realism please. And no tax exemptions to anyone.

The ozone hole was caused by insulant producers - who covers the damage financially? Only those who pay taxes.   

[Paul Buckingham]

Everything we do has a detrimental impact on the environment, insulation is the only way we can reduce the energy consumption of buildings after lifestyle changes have been made.

We consume enormous quantities of products that have high environmental impacts through manufacture, transportation, and life cycle, etc, but which do not help in any way to reducing energy consumption and CO2 emissions, they do in fact add to consumption.

Higher taxes on these energy consuming products, TV's, computer games, alcohol, cigarettes, cars, the list is endless, will help to offset the taxation lost from promoting products that, once installed, contribute to energy reduction and actually repay a large amount of their environmental impact and energy embodiment during their useful life.

There are issues of recyclability for some of these products but others such as cork and wood fibre are natural products that can be recycled or put back into the environment at the end of their useful life without any impact.

Tax the luxury items that we don't really need, in many cases, and use the added revenue to untax the items which are really going to be essential as energy prices rise beyond the reach of many people and energy becomes harder to source.

There's quite a lot of thought gone in to this actually!

[heinbloed]

Well, the damage caused by insulants - who covers these?

It is usually the state who has to come up for. The polluter must pay principle is not adhered to in this case.

Energy can't be saved. That is a physical fact.


Money can be channeled. If we buy product A or product B doesn't matter on our energy consumption.
A £ spend on a product is a £ spend on energy. This is an economical fact in every capitalistic society.

It realy doesn't matter if we spend a £ on insulants or a £ on heating energy.
Both expenditures contain exactly 1 £ worth of energy.

1£ saved on petrol for the car will be 1 £ spend on sugar, bread or butter. Or the next holiday.
Both expenditures will cause our capitalistic economy to reproduce the consumed product, to sell it again. With exactly 1 £ worth of energy going into it's next purchase.

In fact the less energy is asked for the lower the market price for it is. The cheaper it is the more will be used.

This campaign is counter productive, a fake play for the simple minds to be numbed. A public cat-catches-tail play.

This is basic economy, pre-school stuff. A political theater.

So this campaign (reducing VAT on certain products) will shift some expenditures from here to there. But won't safe a single Joule of energy. All it does is faking action on societie's pseudo problems.


Instead of making energy consumption expensive to reduce consumption it is ought to make energy cheaper. Increasing consumption.

A devil's contract.


What about banning nuclear and fossile energy? Leave the dangerous things where nature put them, where nature made it safe?
Close all coal mines and gas and oil fields. Close the uranium mines. Fine those who invest in these things, into the boot camp with them.

This is the only answer to carbon dioxyde and radiation problems. But no, the punch-and-joody show for Joe Average is staged.....

I have absolute no sympathie with such campaigners taken us for idiots. Really.

[Paul Buckingham]

You are entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine, lets just leave it there!

[heinbloed]

No, Paul Buckingham, I won't leave you fooling the public.

Again my question, now the third time:

Who has to cover at the moment and in future the damage caused to society by the users, traders and manufacturers of insulation materials?

Shredded mineral wool blown into atticks and cavity walls is carcinogenic.
Styrol - carcinogenic.
Boron - mutagenic.

And not even VAT payed by the culprits?!

Stripping the public and telling them about insulation's benefits?!


This is a public forum, Paul Buckingham.....

[Jean-Marc Bouvier]

After reading this thread, may I ask Mr Heinbloed what is the "perfect" insulation? As before I die and cause more carbon thru cremation I want to do my bit. 

[heinbloed]

I think we are all looking for this answer, Jean-Marc Bouvier.

A new thread please.

This thread is about stripping the public purse.

If you know someting about EWIS (not perfect, just unproblematic concerning costs to the public and future generations) post it here:

http://www.aecb.net/forum/index.php/topic,3410.0.html

A deflective question is no answer, Jean-Marc Bouvier. So again for you my question which the OP is obviously shying:

Who has to cover at the moment and in future the damage caused to society by the users, traders and manufacturers of insulation materials?

[Jean-Marc Bouvier]

I am part of the public and don't have have the answer, do you?

[Paul Buckingham]

Mr Heinbloed,

This thread is not about stripping the public purse, the banks have already done that!

It is about finding a way to help people insulate their homes, cut their energy bills and reduce energy consumption.

If these pollutants are not being cleaned up at present, as you claim, then reducing taxation really isn't going to make much difference, environmental regulation on the polluting industries, all industries (not just the insulation manufacturers) produce pollutants to some degree. As I said above, which you obviously chose to ignore, insulation, once installed will repay most of its environmental impact by reducing energy consumption during its lifetime, there are not many other products that can make the same claim!

Insulation is expensive to install and buy and most homeowners cannot afford the luxury of warm energy efficient homes so making insulation more affordable has got to be a good thing and meeting the governments target of 80% energy reduction by 2050 will mean every home being insulated to a high degree.

Before you start going on about how polluting the insulation industries are, please take a look at the big picture and realise that we have to do something to reduce our overall consumption of the finite resources the Earth contains.

This is not about money, there is plenty of money out there it's just that the people who have it choose to invest it in schemes that make more money instead of schemes that will actually make a difference and do something valuable. It is about making the little bit of useful money in circulation able to achieve a bit more for its value.

If you want to talk about public money then start a thread that looks at the issues of all the big businesses that pay very little tax on their massive profits and the millionaires who pay very little tax on their massive incomes because they can afford very expensive accountants who can make their money disappear when the tax man come calling!

[J Ingram]

Who pays ? we all pay , either way,  same as usual

The insulation manifacturers whether forced to pay for the polution thier products create or not
will only add that on to the sale price.
Changes in VAT on manifacturers products will not effect thier margins.
As for the government, they will just get the money from elsewhere, lets say , sticking it on fuel .
If people add more insulation and use less fuel , they will then have more money to spend on
other poluting activities. Doesn't mean they will though does it ?
Perhaps they'll just work less, creating even less polution and have more time to spend down the allotment  
  
HB , do you think that adjusting levels of taxation has no effect on society

[heinbloed]

 

HB , do you think that adjusting levels of taxation has no effect on society?

On the pattern of consumption it will have an effect. But not on the energy usage of society.

If the state taxes the purchase of cars fewer cars will be bought. And if this taxation is used to purchase war planes more oil will become cheaper. Fewer cars guzzling more oil will be the result.

Every penny is worth a penny of energy becauses it takes a penny of energy to make a penny.

As long as there is money to be spend it will be spend on energy. All of it.

Only reducing the purchasing power of a society will reduce it's energy purchase.

An 18 year old African citicen has consumed as much purchased energy in his life as an 18 month old European citicen. A question of spending power.