Author Topic: lighting heat gains in PHPP  (Read 941 times)

Maria Hawton-Mead

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lighting heat gains in PHPP
« on: July 21, 2010, 12:02:05 PM »
Any one know how you can put in your own useful heat gain from lighting for domestic buildings? Is there anywhere you can find utilisation factors for lighting for different room types?


Many thanks, Maria      
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 05:14:36 PM by Maria Hawton-Mead »

Nick Grant

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Re: lighting heat gains in PHPP
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2010, 06:17:54 PM »
Hi Maria

Why would you do this??

Heating with additional lighting is electric heating so bad idea. I assume you have seen the discussion between Pete Warm and Wolfgang Feist on IHGs (link on home page).

Sorry you didn't make it to the Passivhaus Trust do the other eve, saw you on the list!

Cheers

Nick

Maria Hawton-Mead

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Re: lighting heat gains in PHPP
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2010, 09:24:23 AM »
Hi Nick,

I undertook a PHPP assessment and the client has now commissioned a lighting designer who has designed a scheme with a very heavy load! I want to check it wont make the house overheat.  I think this will be an issue until lighting designers are on board.  :( 

They have not given a total load or any indication of utilisation levels.   

Somehow the meeting I missed did not get into my diary so I didnt realise i was missing it! Hope it went well. 

Maria

Kate de S

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Re: lighting heat gains in PHPP
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2010, 09:42:36 AM »
...So you are actually more interested in the useless heat load, Maria ;). With good reason, from what I hear.

As a general point from an semi-outsider -  Can't lighting designers (and IT procurers, photocopier and urn procurers, et cetera)  be given an "energy allowance" as part of their brief? Makes a bit of a mockery of the team efforts to refine the design to the last decimal point on PHPP  otherwise, doesn't it?

Nick, if you are after a "stifcut", does the certifier look at the lighting? Can they issue a special class of certificate for "would have been a Passivhaus if the lighting designer had stayed within current best practice guidlines"? Maybe not all lighting designers would want that particular feather in their caps.....?

Alan Clarke

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Re: lighting heat gains in PHPP
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2010, 09:58:41 AM »
Maria
I'm doing this for non-domestic in PHPP, as follows:
firstly there are use profiles for particular room types which convert hourly use into hours day and night-time per year, and have factors for relative absence which you would have to estimate. You can set up your own, similar to existing - I do this as UK schools have different hours than German for instance. Ignore lux - see below.
Then the non-dom elec uses this profile plus room data to determine daylight levels etc to work out annual hours of use and multiplies by W/m2 and m2 to get kWh. However so far I think the PHPP results are optimistic - anyone else have a view?

To get W/m2 you need to sort out the different use profiles, the m2 for each room type, and then add up the lighting wattage of each type to get W/m2. Put this into the non-dom elec sheet. These figures over-ride the figures calculated from design lux levels.

Now for domestic you could probably use the non-dom lighting calc to fudge the lighting line in electricity to get the "right" kWh/year. Now you can check IHG with this elec figure (and see what PE is too).

Finally, we have been setting the lighting engineer targets in terms of W/m2 before they start designing - eg 6 W/m2 for schools - they complain, but the result has been pretty good.
In the spirit of PH you ought to be able to light a house for 2-3 W/m2. However where you are dealing with a lighting "designer" rather than an electrical engineer all bets are off!

Alternatively if the lighting design is done using decent software it may be able to generate your W/m2 and kWh energy use figures, rather than using the non-dom elec sheet.

Alan