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    • #30637

      Does anyone know of any UK experience of burning fuels such as biodiesel (or related liquids) in small (preferably condensing) oil boilers?

      A quick look on the web found only US websites, including a college in Vermont which is considering this.

      I haven't yet asked the main manufacturers.

      David.

    • #33687
      Anonymous

        See further one of the speakers on this subject at the Institute of Domestic Heating Engineer's conference.
        http://www.idhee.org.uk

        The Fielder Conference Centre,
        University of Hertfordshire, Hatfield.

        THURSDAY 17th MAY 2007

      • #33688

        Chris

        Thanks. IDHEE site says “experiments are underway” but couldn't find conference program.

        R4 early this morning featured a dairy farm in Dorset building a methane digester of German design and program said that in Germany they would feed bio-methane into the gas grid, not generate electricity at 30-35% efficiency. Gas output of farm mentioned would be about 1000 kW.

        David.

      • #33689
        Anonymous

          Try clicking on 'Conference' on left menu on the IDHEE website home page. In any case the the contact is for liquid Bio-Fuels for Central Heating is Andrew Robertson, MIDHEE Clean Energy Consultancy.

        • #33690
          Mark Siddall
          Participant

            David
            Try the Center for Renewable Energy from the Land (CREEL) at Newcastle University. They may be able to offer some insight.
            (We are doing a project for them, though I am not sure how progressed they are with their current research programme.)

            Mark

          • #33691
            Anonymous

              You could try http://www.bioflam.com they claim to be able to convert oil boilers.

              I am not convinced about the economics of biodiesel as I have been quoted 50p per litre for use as a heating fuel whereas heating oil is about 33p. I think biodiesel is best used for road transport.

            • #33692
              Nick Grant
              Participant

                I agree Nigel, given that we don't have enough land to grow our transport fuel it seems crazy to heat homes with such high grade biofuel.

                Palm oil fired Agas is where I see it heading.

              • #33693

                Thanks.

                Backup to solar in highly-efficient houses, not main heating fuel.

                I've now found an article on the topic in Sustainable Building Feb 2007 by Andrew Robertson (author mentioned above by Chris). It has a major weakness though in that it does ignore energy efficiency, which could lead to just such a nightmare of large country houses with palm oil-fired Agas and Range Rovers. I don't want to see that either, but neither do I want to breathe their wood smoke.

                Converting brand new boilers doesn't seem sensible so I hope some German or Austrian products will come onto the market which are already biodiesel-compatible. It appears that UK manfacturers except poss bioflam.com aren't interested (no change there, then).

                David.

              • #33694
                Anonymous

                  Saw one designed to run on rapeseed at EcoBuild, built by Atlantic I believe. Huge big beasty.

                • #33695

                  Probably designed for the kind of house which also has an Aga and several Range Rovers!

                  D.

                • #33696
                  Anonymous

                    Maybe, the smallest one produced 10kw I believe, went up to 200kw??

                    Good for a block of flats or other communal use maybe. They had the oil distribution network sorted apparently, deliveries of as little as 1000 litres, although 10,000 was the preferred drop.

                  • #33697
                    Anonymous

                      Hi Roderick, interesting. I hope to be building a low energy house in South Essex…

                    • #33698

                      10 kW is reasonable, most gas boilers are too large as well.

                      Thermal stores tend to need excessive temps. vs unvented cylinders.

                      If in north Essex have you met Mike Garnham? (Pebmarsh) He built two very low-energy houses, lives in one (thatched cottage aesthetics). Very low oil bill.

                      David

                    • #33699
                      Anonymous

                        I’ve just returned from ISH in Frankfurt, which is touted as the largest heating/plumbing show in the world. After 2 days I still didn’t see everything but what I did see was some very large and well known brands pushing bio-fuel alternatives to fossil oil boilers. I know these brands are available in the UK, and I know OFTEC are considering how to regulate installers that will use them. Just like with bio-diesel for transport, I expect we’ll eventually see bio-fuels introduced in stages as a mix according to a EN standard. This will allow generic jetting so it becomes a simple roll-out to the everyday installers. Given the number of existing oil boilers in Europe and the limitations of many of the other technologies, I expect this form of boiler technology to be the biggest EU heating CO2 saver within a decade. However, the big debate here is how the free market will deal with giving up land use for food to benefit transport & heating. The sums don’t really add up yet.

                        On the other point, there were also plenty of combination thermal stores on show also available in the UK. The smaller the store, the more likely you’ll need high temperatures i.e. over 75 C. for a decent shower or bath fill. My store is 750 litres, but not yet commissioned, but I expect sub 70 C. storage for my needs because of its high capacity and good test data. With 100 mm. insulation all round, it has better-heat loss than many odinary UK stores @ 60 C. The storage temperatures are not strongly related to the direct/indirect system designs but do strongly correspond to a decent DHW output coil area and the storage volume.

                      • #33700
                        Nick Grant
                        Participant

                          George Monbiot's piece on biofuel is interesting reading, it's even worse than I'd thought:

                          http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/03/27/a-lethal-solution/

                          Nick

                        • #33701

                          He's now an architect; he's also built his own and other houses.
                          He used to be a cricketer.

                          I agree, Monbiot's document on biofuels is quite grim. He cites the WTO – but if the WTO is an obstacle to certifying biofuels as sustainable, how can the FSC certify timber which is traded internationally as more sustainable and not be pursued by the WTO?

                          At least five countries including the USA are now generating bio-methane and putting it into their gas grid. This isn't happening in the UK yet.

                          Meanwhile the UK Treasury states on its web site that so-called “zero-carbon homes” must not be connected to the gas mains. But they can be all-electric!

                          I'd ignore them and try to reduce your gas consumption to Gold Standard level or less. If on a large rural site, possibly plant trees to offset residual emissions. If this was allowed for rural low-carbon homes, TPOs could possibly be used to ensure that trees planned now continue to sequestrate CO2 over their life and are not cut down by future owners.

                          David.

                        • #33702
                          Anonymous

                            Carbon offset? I'm yet to be convinced. Planted several thousand trees already with several thousand more to plant over the next couple of years.

                          • #33703

                            Tahir

                            Trees absorb CO2 as they grow. Trees on your own site can be regulated and/or controlled (given the will) by either TPOs, planning conditions or by you yourself placing restrictive covenants on the property (to bind future owners). So I can't see any fatal flaws, especially if the calculations of CO2 absorbed are cautious enough and (ideally) are prescribed by law for each species.

                            I *can* see lots of fatal flaws in the Treasury conditions, some of which I pointed out in the BFF article “Zero Carbon, Zero Reality?” (although that was DCLG). I also see lots of flaws in international carbon offsetting – but trees next to your house aren't subject to the same criticisms as say biogas in Botswana (which isn't regulated/controlled and in any case should be considered part of Botswana's own CO2 reduction potential).

                            David.

                          • #33704
                            Anonymous

                              I saw an article in New Scientist last year that questioned the amount of carbon actually captured in this way and another showing that in some places forests actually emit CO2. I'm very pro tree planting but I definitely don't see it as a way of offsetting my emissions, just my contribution to the environment in terms of aesthetic, utility and biodiversity. I had been thinking of a woodburner (not boiler) of some kind but you talked me out of that on energy waste and pollution grounds a long time ago.

                            • #33705
                              Anonymous

                                Very interesting Roderick, I hope to be planting a bit of coppice at some stage…

                              • #33706

                                This idea was reported in Nature and a good article appeared in Renew (regular journal from EERU, OU). It sounds very promising indeed but the conversion might be safer if carried out on a large scale as the wood produces not only charcoal and producer gas but tars. These are not at all nice, think of all the UK's ex-gasworks and their legacy of contaminated land.

                                David.

                              • #33707

                                Another point, if this is done on a larger scale the carbon monoxide and hydrogen can be combined to form other fuels which may be more useful, such as propane or various alcohols. But the charcoal is still buried on farmland to improve its fertility and produce a yield of even more biomass which ….

                                D.

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